The Future of Humanoids Is in Their Hands. Jay Built While Elon Sued | Jay Li, Proception (YC W25)

From Deeptech Decoded: Frontier Builders | AI | Product Taste · 01:17:39

Show by Nihal Kurth

Why are robot hands still stuck at the level of a 5-year-old and what will it take to unlock human-level dexterity?Jay Li https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaylicareer/, founder and CEO of Proception (YC W25) and a former Tesla Optimus engineer, joins Nihal Kurth https://www.linkedin.com/in/nihalkurth/ to discuss what actually makes a robot hand win. Jay breaks down why the human hand, with 25+ degrees of freedom, tendons, and touch-sensitive skin, is so hard to replicate, and why he believes a balanced hand beats one that wins on any single spec. He explains why Proception builds hardware and training data together with ProHand and ProGlove, and why he calls teleoperation a dead end for teaching robots. He also talks about being sued by Tesla and how his team kept building through a year-long lawsuit, pausing demos, PR, and fundraising to spend that year on engineering alone. Plus: the dark stories YC tells founders, why he thinks industrial robots won't become general-purpose humanoids, how the US and China robotics markets are diverging, and the one thing he wishes he had done sooner.We cover:• Why Jay calls teleoperation a dead end, and how a glove worn by humans scales robot training data• The Pro Hand: 22 degrees of freedom, human-level strength, and whole-hand tactile sensing• The "bucket of water" rule for designing a balanced robot hand• What a year-long lawsuit does to hiring, team morale, and focus• The integrity red flag Jay watches for in interviews• An investor who pushed a founder's valuation down to get more shares• US vs China in robotics, and why "build in China, sell in the US" is endingTimestamps:0:00 The Missing Piece of Humanoids: Hands4:05 Why Is the Human Hand So Hard to Copy?7:29 How Good Are Robot Hands Today?8:44 The "Bucket of Water" Rule of Robot Hands12:07 ProHand + ProGlove: Why Build Both?14:46 Why Teleoperation Is a "Dead End"24:23 "Elon Sued Me": The Tesla Lawsuit28:26 Staying calm: what his kids taught him31:25 A Year in Court: Team, Focus, No PR35:46 Why Hard Problems Attract Top Talent40:11 The Integrity Red Flag in Interviews41:51 YC and the Dark Side of Startups43:41 The YC Story: Investor Incentives47:02 YC's Least-Spoken Benefit: No Ceiling49:16 Philip Johnston's "Crazy" Space Data Center Idea50:24 Why Industrial Robots Won't Become Humanoids53:55 From Toddler to Surgeon: The Dexterity Ladder56:50 Will Robotics Have One Winner?1:04:50 Is "Build in China, Sell in US" Over?1:08:42 Why Jay Still Calls Elon His Hero1:13:33 Jay's 3 Rules for Deeptech Founders1:14:36 His One Regret: Starting Sooner1:16:02 "Constraints Are Arbitrary"Where to find Nihal:LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/nihalkurth/X → https://x.com/nihalkurthWhere to find Jay:Deeptech Decoded → https://deeptech-decoded.com/guests/jay-liLinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaylicareer/Proception → https://proception.ai/X → https://x.com/JayLiStanfordWhere to find us:Substack → https://deeptechdecoded.substack.com/LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/company/deeptechdecodedSpotify → https://open.spotify.com/show/5c2T63GUqlDwQO2RIYCxfY?si=17b199ed1a40496bApple Podcasts → https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/deeptech-decoded-frontier-builders-ai-product-taste/id1851406220Music licensed through Soundstripe.Code: KFOFSZI5G1NDXMUN

More episodes of Deeptech Decoded: Frontier Builders | AI | Product Taste

More episodes

PodSearch is a free, independent podcast search engine. Read about PodSearch, the privacy policy or contact us.