Michael Guilding (Video); The Hidden Fear System That Shuts Down Thinking and Connection

From The Locked up Living Podcast: Surviving and thriving in prisons and other challenging environments · 49:30

Show by Podcasters David Jones & Dr Naomi Murphy

This episode explores how fear shapes therapy, forensic work, and everyday relationships. Dr Naomi Murphy and David Jones speak with Michael Guilding about his book Fear in the Therapy Room and why understanding the biology of fear matters for therapists, managers, and anyone working in high-stress environments. Michael shares how his years in Royal Mail management and 30 years as a therapist led him to focus on fear responses, collapse, and regulation. The conversation also covers trauma-informed practice, why safety is essential for difficult conversations, and how connection helps counter threat. https://hammersmithbooks.co.uk/product/fear-in-the-therapy-room/ https://michaelguilding.com/ Key topics Michael Guilding’s path from Royal Mail management to 30 years as a therapist, including NHS leadership in primary care counselling How his work with Una McCluskey, Dorothy Heard, Brian Lake, and attachment-based systems theory shaped his understanding of fear Why fear is not just fight or flight, but also freeze, shutdown, and physical collapse How shame can be understood as part of a fear-collapse response The limits of standard regulation approaches when working with people with severe trauma Peter Levine’s influence and the importance of recognizing collapse in trauma work How fear and social engagement interact, and how safety cues can switch off threat responses Why therapy, prisons, and other institutions can become fear-driven systems What happens when organizations normalize humiliation, scapegoating, and unsafe authority Practical ways to reduce fear through support, community, kindness, and awareness of bodily signals Timestamps 00:00 - Introducing Michael Guilding and his book Fear in the Therapy Room 01:21 - What first drew Michael to fear as a clinical and personal focus 03:01 - Attachment theory, seven systems, and where fear fits 06:35 - Noticing fear in therapy and creating safer clinical spaces 08:19 - Shame, disgust, and fear across a spectrum of responses 10:09 - Why severe trauma required a broader model of fear 11:06 - The food poisoning collapse that clarified fear shutdown 13:36 - Why fear is hard to talk about in prisons and organizations 16:27 - How Michael makes therapy workshops safe enough for honesty 19:20 - Fear and social engagement as competing biological systems 21:53 - Trauma as widespread, not limited to specialist settings 23:47 - Warmth, trust, and why care can still feel threatening 28:39 - Fear in Royal Mail management and the signs of a fear-driven workplace 31:08 - The dismissal case that tested integrity and authority 34:48 - Working as a therapist in the NHS under cuts and scapegoating 39:01 - Helping non-therapists understand fear in prisons and hospitals 42:21 - Long-term health effects of chronic fear and stress 45:14 - Trauma release exercises and shaking as a reset mechanism 46:48 - When institutions are too unsafe to fix from within 48:42 - Whistleblowing, support networks, and surviving standoffs 50:33 - Managing news anxiety by staying connected and acting locally 52:14 - How Michael has looked after his own fear system over time Notable quotes "I see shame as part of a fear system." "The main thing is keep connected. Be part of a community. Don't try and deal with this by yourself." "If you can create safety, then therapists are fine to talk about fear." Action items Notice bodily signs of fear early, before they become shutdown or collapse Use safety cues, warmth, and connection to reduce threat responses In difficult workplaces, identify who can be trusted for support Stay connected to community when news and politics feel overwhelming Prioritize sleep, exercise, friendship, nature, and shared interests as ongoing regulation strategies

More episodes of The Locked up Living Podcast: Surviving and thriving in prisons and other challenging environments

More episodes

PodSearch is a free, independent podcast search engine. Read about PodSearch, the privacy policy or contact us.